Curse

Guildmaster Cain · Oct 18, 2006, 11:14 AM // 11:14

Unyielding Aura ftw, takes care of that suicidal tank that keeps goin Leeroy sprint and attrack all red dots on radar.

Furthermore, UA takes care of DP, low energy and exhaustion. I once had 4 UA's running on a group of suiciders.... oh the fun I had...

No seriously... DONT flame monks for being bad healers/not ressing, because 9/10 times it was your own fault, being out of range, trying to pull everything on map or whatever else. And YES, we see you are dead, but keeping rest of party alive is probably better at the time then resurrecting your DPed corpse that is in the middle of 12 red dots...

Only reason to flame a monk is when its a Mo/E, using firestorm and meteor shower.... yes they are out there and they are deadly.... to the party! Since that happened 2 many times, I always check skills on Mo/E invitees.

Lady Lozza · Oct 18, 2006, 11:20 AM // 11:20

Or a Mo/R using a bow and apply poison...

Minus Sign · Oct 18, 2006, 05:07 PM // 17:07

PvP, monks don't rez. taking the 6-8 seconds to rez (or the 3 for a sig) is a guaranteed spike on another team member and an interupted skill. Because of this I used to be of a mind that any decent monk--in either game type--was wasting his time and energy bringing a rez of any knid. better things to do.

I don't think that way any more.

In PvE mobs do not follow the "kill squishy healer" creed and the damage they produce is much more forgiving.

So in a good group you won't need all 8 skills anyway. And in a bad PuG, you will need rez

I carry a Rebirth just in case something happens. Its not hard to stay in the backline in PvE, making rebrithing easy if a team wipes. Even the best players can wipe if its their first time through the area (haven't memorized how the mobs rotate) or they're just having an off day.

Rebirth can be the difference between doing it all over again or finishing the mission/capping the skill/getting your urgoz.

The better question is: when to use it?

Actual in game text:

player1: rez? any1 rez?
player2: monk rez
me: sig him
me: plz
player3: I don't want to waste it
me: I'm attacking [Boss name]!

Honestly I think everyone (except for a Me/Mo; chant is sweet with FC) should carry a sig except for the monk and the monk should carry rebirth. If there is no monk then a castor with alt monk should bring it. But rebirth is not just a rez. Its a corpse pull; the only one in the game atm. You don't ask people to pull your corpse out in the middle of a MMO raid. you shouldn't expect your monk to in the middle of a fight in this game either.

HigherIntelligence · Oct 19, 2006, 06:43 AM // 06:43

The word "should" in "Who should bring a res" implies force. Nobody is forced to bring rez, people should feel free to bring whatever 8 skills they want.

You will however share the blame should your party die, or be the hero who has rebirth!

Matsumi · Oct 19, 2006, 07:28 AM // 07:28

I stopped using rebirth a long time ago as a monk in PvE, because I just don't see the sense in it. Sure, I could use it and have a nice teleporting effect that drains my energy, but what for? The way I see it, is that if I can res chant or just plain ressurect somebody (perferrably a /mo profession), then THEY can use rebirth while I heal and protect the revived players. A skill that drains 20-32 energy from a warrior or ranger is better than a monk that loses 45-52 energy. I bring ressurect if I plan on doing battle resses, and res chant if it's not that difficult an area. But I don't bring both on my skill bar, I just try to use good judgement beforehand on which to bring.

To me, rebirth is kind of like giving birth for a monk, leaving you depleted and vulnerable, but I'm sure there's a right place and time for any skill. I just don't use it anymore.

Lena A · Oct 20, 2006, 10:49 AM // 10:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by HigherIntelligence

The word "should" in "Who should bring a res" implies force. Nobody is forced to bring rez, people should feel free to bring whatever 8 skills they want.

play what you want in a team of 8 men is not what I consider as teamplay.

Guys I play 55 Hp mesmer with illusion of weakness and 16 in illusion, I play what I want, so you can't say anything if bother you more than I help (but I'll put QZ, tranq and NR before dying, because you have a bonder)

Taking a rez is a must if you don't play alone.

Mr. G · Oct 20, 2006, 05:08 PM // 17:08

http://gw.gamewikis.org/wiki/Rezmer

Ahhh classic....A Pug shouldnt be allowed to leave without this useless bit of kit - you'll die faster but spend less time arguing about whose fualt it was

LouAl · Oct 20, 2006, 09:11 PM // 21:11

There is some questionable logic going on here...

It seems that everyone is in agreement that in PvP it is totally dependent on which arena you are playing and who you are playing with.

But in PvE, if you are going to play in a PuG, you must know that there is a chance that your team will have a near total wipe. Being as that is the case, which is faster to start over (sometimes) or res up and try and finish (usually unless ragequitters are involved). I have had many groups that had all but 1 or 2 people die, after which 2-3 people will quit, and then we go on to finish the job. Sometimes a group really only starts acting coordinated after a near wipe, it is sad but true. I am also quite sure there aren't any builds that absolutely cannot function without all 8 skills, so why not take out an insurance policy on the group and bring a res.

If you are playing with guildies/friends in an organized group go ahead and decide who needs what, but if you are playing with a group of strangers, why would you risk it?

To those that have said that a monk doesn't need res in PvE here is a series of questions for you:

Have you ever been the last person alive while playing your monk? Yes - keep reading -
Did you have a res? No - keep reading -
Was it everyone else who was at fault? Yes or no - keep reading -
Were they all horrible players incapable of rational thought? No - keep reading -
If you found yourself in that situation, and did not have a res, what skill did you bring that you thought would be a better use of that slot?
Did it save you from being the last person standing?
If the answer to this last one is no (and it sould be as your whole team is dead), you probably would have been better served to have brought a res.

Minus Sign · Oct 21, 2006, 04:04 PM // 16:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matsumi

I stopped using rebirth a long time ago as a monk in PvE, because I just don't see the sense in it. Sure, I could use it and have a nice teleporting effect that drains my energy, but what for? The way I see it, is that if I can res chant or just plain ressurect somebody (perferrably a /mo profession), then THEY can use rebirth while I heal and protect the revived players. A skill that drains 20-32 energy from a warrior or ranger is better than a monk that loses 45-52 energy. I bring ressurect if I plan on doing battle resses, and res chant if it's not that difficult an area. But I don't bring both on my skill bar, I just try to use good judgement beforehand on which to bring.

To me, rebirth is kind of like giving birth for a monk, leaving you depleted and vulnerable, but I'm sure there's a right place and time for any skill. I just don't use it anymore.

First things first: even a PvE monk should invest in an energy hide. Do that and the "rebirth eats all my energy" argument becomes moot.

Second: monks do have better things to do than rez fallen players during combat. Thats actually why rebirth should remain the preffered rez of choice for monks in PvE. Its a last resort; used after all else has failed.

If the team needs you to rez, they're already in the middle of a wipe. Even AI mobs will take advantage of a stationary target that is casting a 6-8 second skill. Besides interupt side effects, it leaves you open to being mobbed while you're stationary and effectivly shuts yourself down during combat.

That means (in a 2 monk backline) that half the heal and prot for your team is down for 6-8 seconds...against a mob that has already managed to kill one of your charges. Since 2 RL monk backlines are overkill imho for the majority of missions you can often get away with it. But will your duo thank you for making his job twice as hard for that period of time?

In a one monk backline? The team members that have been depending on you to keep them up (free of hexes and conditions and heal/protting them so they don't have to use thier self heals as much; the only reason you're on the team in the first place, remember?) are now kiting and doing your job--dispersed over 6 other players for 6-8 seconds.

If you--as a monk--are rezzing in combat, you're not just not doing your job. You're forcing the other 6 players to do it for you. In this, PvP and PvE have a common ground.

So...if monks shouldn't rez during actual combat then when should they rez? Answer: after combat, 1 way or another. If the mob is effectivly defeated, rebirth is not an issue. With the use of an energy hide a monk should be back up to full energy long before your team reaches the next mob. If the entire team is down and you're last man standing, then Rebirth's unique function comes into play. Being the only corpse pull in the game it effectily allows you to rez the majority of your team--if not all of them outright--to a point safely away from the mob that just killed them.

Using Rebirth to its full potential as a corpse pull=a second chance.

heroajax1 · Oct 21, 2006, 04:39 PM // 16:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arkantos

PvE - Monks should bring rebirth. Everyone else, a rez.
PvP - Everyone but monks should bring a rez.

exactly.

pve- anyone else but monks w/rez is bonus
pvp- monk w/rez = dead party.

Terra Xin · Oct 22, 2006, 04:20 AM // 04:20

This has been mentioned before. I think this argument is dying out slowly anyway:

Whenever I see a Warrior not carrying res, or ressing just before that warrior dies, then it would make my day facing another warrior who uses Heal Sig + Frenzy.

Spirit Of Azrael · Oct 22, 2006, 06:32 AM // 06:32

Everyone. Nuff said